Monday, August 21, 2006

H ομιλία του ισραηλινού συγγραφέα στην κηδεία του γιου του-David Grossman' son funeral speech














88 comments:

CsLaKoNaS said...

Γεια σου πατρίδα και πάλι...


Επέστρεψα Αθήνα...τα κεφάλια μέσα...


Καλό μας Χειμώνα :(

Ergotelina said...

Kαλό μας Χειμώνα εν μέσω καύσωνα...



Προσπάθησε να σώσει το γιο του
με την "Υστατη Εκκληση"
αλλά δεν πρόλαβε...




Σε αυτό το στάδιο καλούμε την ισραηλινή κυβέρνηση να συμφωνήσει για άμεση κατάπαυση του πυρός, με την πεποίθηση ότι οι πιθανοί και αντικειμενικοί στόχοι αυτής της στρατιωτικής επιχείρησης έχουν επιτευχθεί και δεν δικαιολογείται πλέον αιματοχυσία και στις δύο πλευρές".
"H επιμονή του Iσραήλ να υπερασπιστεί τα σύνορά του έχει γίνει ξεκάθαρη στον λαό του Λιβάνου και επομένως δεν υπάρχει λόγος να μεγαλώσουμε τον δικό μας και τον δικό τους πόνο".
Από την επιστολή των David Grossman, Amos Oz και Avraham B. Yehoshua, η οποία δημοσιεύθηκε στην πρώτη σελίδα της ισραηλινής εφημερίδας "Haaretz".
(Sociothoughts)

American Crusader said...

As beautiful as it was, it is still very hard to read.

Ergotelina said...

@American Crusader

The Father tried to save
his son.....


Peace Now.Open Letter to Defense Minister Peretz published in Haaretz on June 14th 2006.

I think it s the Day Uri was killed.

Ergotelina said...

The woman i have on my avatar
is

An Israeli woman who holds a candle during a memorial ceremony marking eighth anniversary of the assassination of former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in Tel Aviv

November 3, 2003

Dim. Stefosis said...

Με πρόλαβες... Όταν το έμαθα συγκλονίστηκα! Έγραψα ένα κείμενο γι' αυτό, το οποίο δημοσιεύθηκε σε μια εφημερίδα στην Πράγα, με την οποία συνεργάζομαι. Δυστυχώς δεν είχα το χρόνο να το μεταφράσω στα ελληνικά...

Greg said...

Τον πόνο εμείς τον καταλαβαίνουμε. Οι ραββίνοι;

Yesha Rabbinical Council: During time of war, enemy has no innocents

Ergotelina said...

@
Dim. Stefosis
ναι ειναι συγκλονιστικο..

Ουγγαρία ε; μια χαρα θα είσαι...
Ευχομαι το blog σου να
αναρρώσει........
:)


@Greg

Neither of Mullahs understand the pain...

Many of them,as the Rabbines,
are happy when their sons died
in the battle...



Παντως το ίδιο απόσπασμα
ειχε δωσει ο Μαυρος γατος
στους Lebanese bloggers
και ενας Ισραηλινος ο
Οmer(Israeli)
said......


@They don't suprise me. you should know that there are a lot of rabbis with alot of diffrent opinions.
Well in case of Yesha, they are small minority (mainly settlers). politicaly they are ultra-right. I could only imagine how horrific it could be if they actually controled this war.
One soldier from them, even went to jail, after refusing to fight for a goverment that will evacute them from their home (a settlment). Some of them are even bound to fight israel when we pull out of the west-bank.
To me they are extreimist like HEZ. They dont get much sympathy from the majorty of the Israeli's, thou.


Δες την υπόλοιπη συζητηση εδω.Lebanese bloggers,at the bottom

Ergotelina said...

Parallelisms......


Nasrallah mourns his son who was killed by Israel
in Lebanon 9/15/1997


After the death of six members of the Lebanese Army, and the loss of contact with four fighters of the Islamic Resistance in a fight with Israel on Saturday night, one of the lost members of the Islamic Resistance came back safe, while another who was killed turned out to be Hizbullah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah's son, Hadi Nasrallah.

Hadi, 18, was able to establish a heroic career during his short lifetime. He was a member of the special forces of the Lebanese resistance. He joined several military training courses and died in the confrontation with the Israeli occupation in al Rafi mountain area on September 13 evening.

Yesterday, Hassan Nasrallah received messages of condolence and sympathy from numerous leaders from all over the world. In a speech, Nasrallah said that the death of his son was not a victory for Israel, but a victory for Hizbullah. "He was not promenading in Harat Horek streets when he was killed by Israel, for he went by himself to the enemy, to the most dangerous area of the front line."

Nasrallah added that he wanted to let the enemy as well as the Lebanese people know that though Hadi Nasrallah was the son of Hizbullah's Secretary General, he went to the front on his own, without being the object of any pressure from his father. He also said that the case was the same for all the "pure heroes" who could be fighting at this very moment. "The only merit that we and their parents have is that we did not hinder their decision to the virtuous way they chose," Nasrallah said refereing to the killed fighters.

Concerning the exchanges of bodies, Nasrallah announced that Hadi Nasrallah's body will be considered by Hizbullah like that of any other killed fighter, and that they will not allow Israel to take advantage of the fact that Hadi Nasrallah is the son of Hizbullah's Secretary General in order to bargain in the exchanges and get more than they would if he was any other fighter.

Arabic News.com

advocatus diaboli said...

Σκέφτομαι πως το να υποστηρίζεις έναν πόλεμο, όποιον πόλεμο κάνει μια πατρίδα, όποια πατρίδα, που επιτίθεται πρώτη, ίσως και να είναι Ύβρις, με την αρχαία έννοια του όρου. Και τότε, οι θεοί, η ζωή, η δικαιοσύνη, σου στέλνουν το επιτίμιο. Συνήθως, το πιο σκληρό. Πόσο σκληρό για έναν πατέρα, για μια μάνα (όποιον πατέρα, όποια μάνα) να χάνουν το παιδί τους. Τότε η Ανθρωπιά χάνει τον πόλεμο.

carder said...

εργοτελίνα έργο τελείς μέγα στη μπλογκόσφαιρα και μας καθηλώνεις με τα link σου. Από εδώ και στο εξής σε ονοματίζω ergoogle
:)

Ergotelina said...

H Δικηγόρος του Διαβόλου
κατι ξερει παραπάνω....

Tελικα Σαββατο πεθανε

Saturday died...



Uri Grossman who served in an armored unit, was killed Saturday when an anti-tank missile hit his tank....
But, like most Israelis, David Grossman supported Israel's retaliation when Hizbullah fighters kidnapped two IDF soldiers inside Israel on July 12 and unleashed a barrage of rockets on civilians in the north.

By Thursday 10 August 2006 he said the war had gone on long enough.
Jerusalem Post

Ergotelina said...

Ακουσα και μια αλλη θεωρία
συνομωσίας...

..Ο Στρατηγός τον εστειλε
στην πρωτη τη γραμμή
γιατι ο Πατερας του
ζητουσε ανακωχη.........


@Carter
που σε 'πα μια φορά..

Δεν πιστευω να σαι Carder...

carder said...

...και μέχρι τώρα νόμιζα ότι ήμουν ένας απλός χαρτοπαίκτης

American Crusader said...

I wondered about the origin of your avatar. I originally thought it was you.

CsLaKoNaS said...

Έχοντας πήξει από τη ζέστη το διάβασμα και το άγχος να προλάβω να διαβάσω ό,τι μπορώ μπαίνω στον πειρασμό να πω ό,τι έλεγα ανέκαθεν για το μεσανατολικό ζήτημα:

Ο πόλεμος εκεί θα τελειώσει όταν σκοτωθούν όλοι και δε μείνει κανένας.

Μέχρι τότε κάθε προσπάθεια για ειρήνη είναι καταδικασμένη...


Βρε παιδιά, τώρα με τα γεγονότα στο Λίβανο είμαι άραγε ο μόνος που μπήκε σε σκέψεις για την πολιτική του Χίτλερ απέναντι στους Εβραίους...πόσο προφητική μπορεί να αποδειχθεί ;Λες κάτι να ήξερε ο Αδόλφος;
(αστειάκι....σάπιο...ένεκα ο καύσωνας)

PeaceMan said...

Jill Carrol was asked to convert to Islam after 3 days being held hostage.

"But if I'm a Muslim woman...they could kill me."
Carroll was asked to convert to Islam

PeaceMan said...

why some people cry for muslim girl who lost her job with jazeera????

does they cry when Christian or hindu lose job with BBC? funny!!

Does they cry when innocent Chinese raped, beat, and killed by muslim in indonesia?

Does they cry when innocent Africans raped, beat, and killed by muslims in Africa?

Does they cry when innocent people, Christian and muslim, raped, beat, and killed by muslims in middle east?

Does they cry when innocent people blow up in planes, restaurants, crowded shopping place by muslims?

Is one woman who lost her job more important than those innocent victims?

Ergotelina said...

From the earliest days Anglo-Americans tried to convert the Indians to the Christian religion.
........................................


Jill Carroll's kidnappers had demanded the release of all female prisoners in Iraq..........

Ergotelina said...

Carrol is alive but Alan
his interpreter is dead

Baghdad burning

Riverbend said
....I am not anti-American - I know many wonderful Americans and correspond and communicate with them regularly. I am, however, anti-occupation.

I don't wish for the "days of Saddam", if that's what you're asking. I am, however, completely against the presence of foreign troops in Iraq.

Why do you refer to the current Iraqi government as puppets?

Because almost all of them are allied with one foreign government or intelligence agency or another. None of them seems to have Iraq's best interests at heart. They are all too busy lining their pockets in preparation for their comfortable retirement from the Green Zone to outside of the country.





http://www.uruknet.info/?p=22306

Ergotelina said...

In the previous post

i don't cry for Yvonne Ridley
because she was sacked from
Al-Jazeera..

i just wondered that was fired
due to american pressure...



When the US will end the job
and go to sweet home?................


:)

dodos said...

Αξιολύπητος κάθε πατέρας που θάβει τον γιό του...

ergo te linK (sic), δεν...ξεκουράζεσαι ποτέ;

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

Ergo to Lina,

To answer your question you posted on my blog, I will try and answer it. But please remember that I have no clue what would happen in the future, and please understand that only God really knows what has happened, is happening, and will happen.

A simple answer to the question is No, the conflict will not just disappear over night if the Americans pull out as many other sources of the conflict will remain over there. But, it will be the start of the end of the conflict when they and others pull out and end the occupation. There is some kind of conflict between the Shia and Sunni when it comes to "Who should be ruling the Muslims", but certainly, and after all what has happened, they won't start killing each other just because of the aged old Shia-Sunni differences.

As it is the case that there is no fundamental conflict between Christians and Muslims that calls on such onslaught between the two, there is no fundamental conflict between Sunni and Shia that calls upon such onslaught. Killing of innocent people is not allowed under any circumstances in both Sunni and Shia. They are Muslims and follow different traditions about particular things here and there. Both believe in one God and follow the last of his Prophets, Prophet Mohammad peace and blessings be upon him.

I don't have good understanding of the Greek, Cyprus, Turkey conflict, but believe me, all will end when hate, fear, and greed are reduced and minimized. We are all humans and we can all share this palnet peacfully and happily.

@"Peace"Maker, if you want peace, then stop spreading hate. There are about 1.5Billion Muslims around the world. If the Indonesians have this "kill all non-Muslims", then know Islam is against it and they are acting way much out of the Islamic boundries. They are ignorant and have little understanding if they believe in such things.

advocatus diaboli said...

Οι θηριωδίες του Χίτλερ απέναντι στους Εβραίους, είναι, ακριβώς, η απόδειξη ότι η βία γεννάει μόνο (ΜΟΝΟ) βία.

Ergotelina said...

@Dodos Ηerodote would agree with you….

Herodotus1.87


Tell me, Croesus, what man persuaded thee to lead thy army against my land, and to make me thine enemy, having been before thy friend?" Then Croesus answered, "This I did, O King, for thy good fortune, but to my loss. Nor was it a man that did this, but the god of the Greeks, who encouraged me to make war against thee. For surely no man is so foolish that of his own will he should choose war instead of peace; for in peace the children bury their fathers, but in war the fathers bury their children. But these things have fallen out as the Gods would have them."

@NoFearNoHateNoGreed only God really knows what has happened, is happening, and will happen.

http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=church&book=storieseast&story=saved

"Κροῖσε, τίς σε ἀνθρώπων ἀνέγνωσε ἐπὶ γῆν τὴν ἐμὴν στρατευσάμενον πολέμιον ἀντὶ φίλου ἐμοὶ καταστῆναι; ὁ δὲ εἶπε "ὦ βασιλεῦ, ἐγὼ ταῦτα ἔπρηξα τῇ σῇ μὲν εὐδαιμονίῃ, τῇ ἐμεωυτοῦ δὲ κακοδαιμονίῃ, αἴτιος δὲ τούτων ἐγένετο ὁ Ἑλλήνων θεὸς ἐπαείρας ἐμὲ στρατεύεσθαι. οὐδεὶς γὰρ οὕτω ἀνόητος ἐστὶ ὅστις πόλεμον πρὸ εἰρήνης αἱρέεται· ἐν μὲν γὰρ τῇ οἱ παῖδες τοὺς πατέρας θάπτουσι, ἐν δὲ τῷ οἱ πατέρες τοὺς παῖδας. ἀλλὰ ταῦτα δαίμοσί κου φίλον ἦν οὕτω γενέσθαι

Kροίσε,ποιός άνθρωπος σου ξεσήκωσε το μυαλό,για να κινήσεις το στρατό σου εναντίον της χώρας μου,και να γίνεις εχθρός αντί για φίλος;.
-Εκανα ό,τι έκανα για τη δική σου καλή τύχη
Για τη δική μου όμως κακοτυχιά..αίτιος σε αυτό σταθηκε ο θεός των Ελλήνων,που με ξεσήκωσε να κινήσω το στρατό μου.Γιατί βέβαια κανείς δεν είναι τόσο αμυαλος που να θέλει πόλεμο αντί για ειρήνη…όσο κρατα αυτή,τα παιδιά θαβουν τους γονείς τους.Ενώ στον πόλεμο οι γονείς τα παιδιά.Αλλα αυτό ήταν θέλημα θεού να γίνει
(Mεταφραση:Μαρωνίτης,εκδ.Γκοβόστη)

Creso, quale uomo ti convinse a marciare contro le mie terre, a essermi nemico invece che amico?" E Creso rispose: "Sovrano, ho agito così per la tua felicità e per la mia rovina: di tutto questo il colpevole fu il dio dei Greci, che mi esortò alla guerra. Perché nessuno è così folle da preferire la guerra alla pace: in pace i figli seppelliscono i padri, in guerra sono i padri a seppellire i figli. Ma piaceva forse a un dio che le cose andassero come sono andate".

http://www.filosofico.net/erodotostorie1.htm

Ergotelina said...

@advocatus diaboli


Comparing the reactions of the
two fathers Nasrallah and Grossman
towards the death of their sons
...

i think that israeli society
as a western one
cares a lot of its own
casualties....

On the other hand
Arabs have so big populations
and when someone of them
die in the battle
they celebrate...
The dead at war go to paradise....

Israelis possess the Army-Technology..

but the Arabs avail more men
to die fluently...



Old Cultural diversions....

Irmão Colpani said...

Access:

www.veiorosa.blogspot.com

Véio Rosa BrotherHood

Heresy and subversion


(with translation for english, spanish, japanese, chinese and others)

made in Brasil

American Crusader said...

Ergo te Lina said...
From the earliest days Anglo-Americans tried to convert the Indians to the Christian religion.

So did Spain throughout South and Central American. Definitely not something most Christians are proud of...but they weren't forced to convert or killed if they didn't. Nor is it condoned in the Bible but the Koran says it's the duty of every Muslim.

American Crusader said...

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...Killing of innocent people is not allowed under any circumstances in both Sunni and Shia.

This is blatantly false...
"And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression or worsen slaughter; but fight than not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith" (sura 2: 190)
The Koran explicitly enjoins Muslims to wage war against the People of the Book until they either convert Islam or are subdued as second-class dhimmis (sura 9)

Now if you mean "innocent Muslims", then that is a different story.

mohammed_siad said...

The kiss and the blood
ISLAM: THE CULT OF DEATH AND MURDER

Ergotelina said...

The wolfs...... and the sheep...

of Christian Fundamentalism

Ergotelina said...

The Peruvian Inquisition was carried out mainly by a priest named Diego de Landa. De Landa investigated and chronicled the cultures of Latin American natives and collected their sacred texts to learn about the people. Then, he promptly burned the sacred texts and killed dissenters in the name of God and conversion to Catholicism. Natives were renamed forcefully and names were chosen randomly from the Spanish culture. Language and writing were restricted to Spanish only.

In later years a new wave of Peruvian pride occurred. Plays were written in the native languages, nobles had their portraits painted in traditional clothing, and children were named in the native fashion, all in a backlash against the restrictions of the Peruvian Inquisition.

Spanish Inquisition

Ergotelina said...

@mohammed_siad...
The Opus Dei ..disguised....

Nice Ultra-catholic site....

Pope John Paul II was
a smart diplomat...


Why Shouldn't the Pope Apologize
for the Inquisition?
.................................

Recent data show that the Spanish Inquisition was both fair in its methods and just in its punishments.......................

Ergotelina said...

.....................................






But when have Christians demonstrated this love to Muslims or Jews?

We have gone to them with swords and guns. We have gone to them with racism and hatred.

We have gone to them with feelings of cultural superiority and economic domination.

We have gone to them with colonialism and exploitation.

We have even gone to them with the Gospel cloaked in arguments of superiority.

Only a few have ever gone with the message of Calvary...We must do more than carry the message, we must be the message."


Reconciliation Walk

Are you ready to walk this way?

YEMEN: THE ARABIA FELIX said...

peace and love will prevail eventually

advocatus diaboli said...

Εργοτελίνα, πικρό το σχόλιό σου. Και σoφό.

betty coltrane said...

Hey girl!!! Yes, Nick Cave is my man!!! Obrigado!!!!! =))))
Do you like Nick Cave's music?
And Leonard Cohen? - I ask because the music you sent me is from the film Leonard Cohen -I'm your man. Really great! ;)

Does this discussion changes in any way your point of view? Or do you just want to know the opinion of others? Does it opens your frontiers, or just makes your convictions stronger? I'm really curious! =)

BIG KISSES

Que a paz te acompanhe na tua demanda, seja ela qual for! ;)

dodos said...

Άλλη μιά αίτηση συγγνώμης από θρησκευτικό ή πολιτικό αρχηγό αρκεί άραγε ή μήπως, όπως λένε, από τότε πού βρέθηκε η συγγνώμη, χάθηκε το φιλότιμο;

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

@American Crusader,

I guess ignorant people like you, or I should rather say, purposely ignorant people like you who go around spreading hate and violence, should be jailed. Following is a reply on my blog for a question that touched upon what you are claiming. "Crusader", happy to claim yourself to be one of those animals?! I'll also touch upon Sura 9, so you would shut up for good. Or at least, that you would know someone knows you are living your life on a lie.

By Sanja at http://nofearnohatenogreed@blogspot.com
Ecevit, you raised many interesting points, and i wish i have more time to reply. Just to say, i am not a Islamic scholar and because of that i am seeking for answers on IslamOnline.net website, which is one of the largest database on Islam on web, and most importantly, most respected scholars from all over the world contribute to this website, and therefore i trust it. Even if one is not sure about their answers, one is encouraged to speak to other scholars and seek the truth. In Islam, we are asked to check every verse or hadith(prophet's traditions and sayings) that we hear, and not just simply follow it, because it might be very well possible that verse or hadith was misquoted or misinterpreted. There was a scholar that would read 89 different commentaries on Quran, and still he would not be satisfied with them, and then he would withdraw himself to some quiet space and think about it all. I'm trying to say that in Islam, it is very important to seek the answers, question, and attempt to understand, and of course ask God's guidance in understanding.

I will first start with the verse 4:89 that you quoted. All holy Books are written in certain context, you understand this right? People who wish to put down a religion, love to take a verse out of context, not mention verses prior or following the chosen one, and then blame the religion for being violent, unreasonable etc. This happens with Islam often, but one christian friend told me that people came to him with Bible quotes out of context and tried to put down Christianity. As you will see below, there are numerous "violent" verses from Bible, that can also be taken out of context and...you know what then.

So, the 4:89 verse was revealed at the certain time (actually exactly during the battle between Muslims and unbelievers (not Christians, not Jews, but unbelievers) and was revealed in certain context: time of war. If you were to read verses that come before and after 4:89 you would understand that it talks about war rules, and what a muslim should do if they are in war. Because i am not a scholar, here is the reply from Dr. Siddiqi about this verse and other one similar to it. I hope it helps:

Name of Questioner: John - United Kingdom


Title


Does the Qur’an Teach Violence?


Question


I hope you scholars will help me get rid of these confusions I have been having since the Sept 11 incident, especially as regards some Qur’anic verses. These verses totally contradict what Muslims say that their religion calls for peace and denounces violence. Mind you, though not a Muslim, but I don’t hate Muslims. I just need shedding light on some issues. How would you interpret a verse like this (And slay them wherever ye catch them…)? (Al-Baqarah2 :191 ) and (…But if they turn away, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks) (An-Nisaa'4 :89 ) I will really appreciate your quick reply.


Date
03/May/2005
Name of Counsellor
Muzammil Siddiqi
Topic
Misconceptions, Misconceptions

Answer

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Thanks for the question you posed, it’s very interesting, and that is why we also try our best to furnish you with appropriate answer.

In the first place, we would like to stress that when we Muslims state that Islam is a religion of peace, we are not trying to prove something unreasonable or solve a crossword puzzle. Rather, we are just stating a fact backed by clear-cut evidence and unquestionable proofs. Even we don’t need to state this fact, for Islam, in itself, is self-explanatory, in terms of its meaning, its noble teachings and the core of its message conveyed by the Prophets Allah sent to mankind.

Shedding more light on this issue, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, states the following:

Thank you very much for your kind words that you do not hate Muslims. Hate is not good for any person. I want to assure you that we Muslims also do not hate non-Muslims, be they Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist or followers of any religion or no religion. Our religion does not allow killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Qur’an and the guidance of our blessed Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah).

The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, (…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am6 :151 ) and Allah says in the Qur’an, (Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)) (Al-Israa’17 :33 ). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See Al-Ma’idah5 :32 )

However, your question is valid, then how come the Qur’an says, (kill them wherever you find them…) as it is mentioned in Surah Al-Baqarah2 : 191 and Surah An-Nisaa’4 : 89. The answer is simple and that is, you should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after. Read the full text and see what is said:

(Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.) (Al-Baqarah2 :190 -194)

For your second quotation also read the full text:

(They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.) (An-Nisaa’4 :89 -91)

Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one anywhere? These verses were revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the “terrorist”. These verses are not a permission for “terrorism” but they are a warning against the “terrorists.” But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.

It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.

Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them:

“When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy20 :10-17)

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers31 :17-18)

Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:

“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Luke19 :26-27)


Taken from http://www.islamonline.net/servlet
/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar
/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544502

Ergotelina said...

@NoFearNoHateNoGreed

Thank you for the link
and the site
i did not know the exact
story of these phrases.
i ll study it tommorow.


(((((((((((((((((((((Islamonline.net/Does the QUR’AN TEACH VIOLENCE?))))))))))))))))))))))))

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

QALQILIA, August 22, 2006, (WAFA)- Palestinian Grassroots, Anti-Apartheid Wall Campaign reported that the Israeli bulldozers have been uprooting olive trees in Kfur Laqif and Azzun villages east of Qalqiliya, a week ago.

The Campaign said in a press release that Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) uproot trees to prepare the footprint of a second part of the Ariel colony Block Apartheid Wall.

"The Wall is to be built to the southwest of Kfur Laqif and east of Azzun. This lies to the northeast of Ma'ale Shomron and Qame Shomron colonies in the Ariel Block," the Campaign said.

According to the municipality of Kfur Laqif IOF started work on the edge of the village and destroyed over 2km2 of village land. The mayor said farmers were not allowed to reach their confiscated land any more and soldiers attacked and beat an old man for merely attempting to access his land.

"The Occupation has been seizing the land of Kfur Laqif since the 1980s. Hundreds of dunums of agricultural land were seized to erect the colony of Qame Shomron and the coloniser bypass-road," the Campaign reported.

It added that the Wall will seize another 1000 dunums. 500 dunums of village land will be behind the Wall southwest of the village and farmers will lose use of the land without receiving any compensation.

A further 500 dunums will be lost after construction starts northeast of the village. The Wall will completely close off the southern entrance to village.

Since the 1970s the village of Azzun has already lost 7,560 dunums of land to the colonies of Alfe Menashe, Zufin and Ma'ale Shomron. The recent seizure orders mean Azzun village, with a population of 9,000, will have lost 75% of its land since 1948.

The Wall to the northwest of Azzun around the colony of Zufin seized 4070 dunums in 2003. The Wall will further destroy the village's economy - over 60% of the populations are farmers who depend on the land for their livelihood. Unemployment and poverty will rise still further as a result of the latest land theft.

Since 2004 when construction of the Wall to the south-east of the village began, Azzun has lost 230 dunums of land in this area. Seizure orders were recently distributed for a further 800 dunums of agricultural land.

Bulldozers working northeast of the village are currently completing construction of the Wall and uprooting olive groves. The Wall will be only 50m from some of Azzun's houses, the Palestinian Grassroots Anti-Apartheid Wall Campaign concluded.

S.A.S. (19:46 P) (16:46 GMT)

Ergotelina said...

Qalqilia farmers refuse to give up in the face of Israeli restrictions and land confiscation.14 August 2006
(Palestine Monitor)

Ergotelina said...

@NoFearNoHateNoGreed

Read this with its comments

The occupation is still occupation
By Israeli Haaretz Editorial


The settlers of Eli, three of whose residents were killed in Lebanon, say the war proved the settlers right. This is a blatant lie, based on preaching to messianic militarism, worshiping eternal war against the Arabs with no willingness for concessions or dialogue. The settlements and the occupation are disastrous to Israel even if the settlers volunteer to the army and are killed, like soldiers from the rest of the population. The death of soldiers from Eli does nothing to justify their settlement there.

The funds that were invested in the settlements could have been used to prevent the home front towns in the Galilee from becoming poor, rundown neglected communities. The erosion of the army, due to fighting against Palestinian civilians for years, explains at least in part the IDF's weakness in the face of Hezbollah.

The settlers must not be allowed to use the war in Lebanon to "launder" the settlement project, even if Olmert's government does not intend to carry out the realignment plan. Governments come and go, but the need to end the occupation remains.

Ergotelina said...

"Illusions of a Separate Peace" by David Grossman



JERUSALEM — As you read this, a fence is going up to separate Israel from Palestinians. For now, it is defined as temporary, for defensive purposes only. It encompasses, on its Israeli side, most of the settlements Israel has established in the occupied territories. It is not intended to determine the future border between Israel and the Palestinian Authority....

"Good fences make good neighbors," wrote the poet Robert Frost....


....From my conversations with Palestinian leaders, however, I am convinced there still is a chance for peace. Most Israelis disagree. "There's no one to make an agreement with!" they say. "Even Shimon Peres and the leaders of the left say that they are no longer willing to talk with Arafat, and in the meantime Israel must defend itself against terror somehow!"....



....A wall will allow the extremists — who are all too numerous — to argue that there will be no one to talk to in the future. Putting the other out of sight will only make dehumanization easier and justify a more extreme struggle....



Illusions of a Separate Peace
July 12, 2002
By DAVID GROSSMAN

Ergotelina said...

.....We, veteran and active pilots alike, who served and still serve the state of Israel for long weeks every year, are opposed to carrying out attack orders that are illegal and immoral of the type the state of Israel has been conducting in the territories. We, who were raised to love the state of Israel and contribute to the Zionist enterprise, refuse to take part in Air Force attacks on civilian population centers. We, for whom the Israel Defense Forces and the Air Force are an inalienable part of ourselves, refuse to continue to harm innocent civilians. These actions are illegal and immoral, and are a direct result of the ongoing occupation which is corrupting all of Israeli society. Perpetuation of the occupation is fatally harming the security of the state of Israel and its moral strength........




...he had written on 117 tanks and other military vehicles grafitty with the text: "Soldiers of the IDF, refuse to be occupiers and opressors, refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories!" as well as placing on electricity pilons in the miltary camp where he was serving -and on inside doors of the stalls in the officers' toilet - stickers with the slogans "Down with the Occupation!"........



There are some Israeli Rabbis, former generals and public figures who call on soldiers to refuse orders to dismantle Israeli settlements and remove their residents. One of the prominent figures who call soldiers to refuse removal order is Uri Elitzur, a publicist and former civil servant.......



Refusal to serve in the Israeli military
From Wikipedia

Ergotelina said...

@NoFearNoHateNoGreed

There are Israelis to talk with....

who speak about giving back
Golan Heights...

BUT SYRIA MUST ALSO OPEN ITS FACE
TO THE WORLD...............

:)

No Fear,no hate,no greed....

Dim. Stefosis said...

Tο (μεταφρασμένο πλέον) κείμενό μου για τους Uri και David Grossman, στο οποίο αναφέρθηκα με το προχθεσινό σχόλιό μου...

Dim. Stefosis said...

Συγνώμη, η σωστή διεύθυνση του κειμένου "Stutz..."

Ergotelina said...

@Dim. Stefosis

"Stutz..."
i like that Yidissh. word..
it can happen...

i d like to translate the
text in english



@American Crusader and
mohammed_siad


.......
Do you think that the only
terrorists in the world
are the "bad muslims"?
For example
there was no Chechen behind
10 dead..
The recent market blast in Moscow
had racistic and business motives

Ergotelina said...

@betty coltrane

We are closer to Middle East
than Portugal...
:)
we are "condemned" to
coexist and
understand the "others"

Communicating breaks down
the fear..



@Dodos

I Think it s important for the churches and the nations
to apologize for "the black signs" of their history...
it s not just words....
For the Inquisition and the Crusades
Some Ultra-Catholics are getting sick of hearing the word...
Apology...

:)

Dim. Stefosis said...


Εγκλήματα πολέμου!
...

Ergotelina said...

@YEMEN: THE ARABIA FELIX said...

peace and love will prevail eventually


..nice videos of your blog

I hope you have some Friends of Yemenite Jews

Ergotelina said...

Yemeni Jews Song-Party

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

ergo te lina,

if it was up to me, I would open every dialog possible to save the Palestinians' land.

I have no idea what is the issue with the Syrian government. From a video of the Syrian Ambassador the Syrian government seem to be playing a constructive role.

Last, I need to mention that I am a Muslim, then a human, then a Muslim (once more), then an Arab, then a Syrian from Damascus.

What I am trying to say is that the Palestinians are the major issue NOT the Golan Heights. And that is to me personally.

I shall give the Palestinians all of my energy and thought. Their struggle is my struggle. Their resistance is my resistance. Shall share their pain as if I am the one in pain. I shall share their happiness as if I am the one who is happy.

I care foremost for them. Poor people.

As for the Israelis, I really don't care that some (1 or 2 out of 10) really want peace and justice for everyone.

It is clear as the noon sun that Israel wants war all the time.

Living On Terrorisim
In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt's personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: "[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocationand-revenge...And above all - let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." Quoted in Livia Rokach, "Israel's Sacred Terrorism."

Last, those who wish to draw a violent picture of Islam are dwelling in endless darkness.

I have met at least one Indonasian and they seem to really think that they are supposed to kill all non-Muslims, period. I guess the recent Tsunami is nothing more than punishment for their grave sins.

May Allah guide the human soul for justice and peace.

No Fear, No Hate, No Greed.

Basem

FreeCyprus said...

Ergo Te Lina, regarding your little battle with Nikos on my site I posted this:


Nikos, in the "blogosphere" we post our opinions and beliefs. We don't have to give the other side it's due...that's the point of blogging.

There is an incredible amount of bias in the media, be it in the US, Europe or the Middle East. Why are you surprised to see bias in blogs?

Anyway, I don't agree with all the comments and posts I read from blogs around the world, but I'll fight for their right to post their opinions any day.

4:58 PM

Ergotelina said...

@FreeCyprus ...No disagree
Keep on the good work...

:)


@NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...
As for the Israelis, I really don't care that some (1 or 2 out of 10) really want peace and justice for everyone.


I disagree

The leftists and the Arabs from
Israel(18%) are the key to the solution.
Those people struggle for peace
and many of them were jailed.
Their protests against the
Settlers helped israeli government
to pull out of the west-bank.

The Future is with peacemakers
like David Grossman and not with
hawks like Moshe Dayan....

But do you think that Israel has a right to exist?....

or else..if you think that no
co-existance has possibilities
and they must go back to the ships
..that helps the israeli hawks
and does not give peace a chance..

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

Ergo Te Lina,

I think you have taken my comments wrongly.

What I wanted to say is, as long as only a few (18%) want peace, this reflects a serious flaw in the Israeli society that has been living and causing the conflict for decades.

Every Israeli leader knows very well that it is more than easily to live in peace with the Arabs if the Israeli wants that.

But the long years of wars and conflict and ever lasting anexation and violence, and the fact that Israel asks of both of women and men above 18 years old of age to enroll in mandatory military service for 2 and 3 years respectively is a strong indication of Israel's lust for war and violence.

I support the two state Solution, but, if it is the case of either "1 or 0" as an Israeli settler puts in Palestine is still the issue. then it will be Zero for Israel and 1 for the Palestinians.

Again, it is up to U$rael to put down war and go for peace.

Every country, except of-course U$rael (US and Israel), in the U.N. supports the two state solution that in my opinion is the only peacful solution of co-existance.

The fact that many asks if Israel has the right to exist, is nothing more than continuation of Israeli propaganda for more war war and war. The real question is, does Palestine has the right to exist or not? Ask that the settlers and see what they say.

again, if it is 1 or zero, then back to their ships that brought them.

I hope it is clear. It is up to the Israelis. Every Arab nation wants peace. But the long decades of dedicated efforts for war makes me wonder if any Arab should even bother thinking of peace.

How many more thousands need to die until peace is reached? Lust of war and crimes. Never ending. It's in Israeli's blood.

No Fear, No Hate, No Greed.

Basem

FreeCyprus said...

Greece wins fourth straight in World Basketball Championships!

Greece 91, Brazil 80

FreeCyprus said...

One article on how some Arab Christians feel:

Arab Christian Groups Villify Israel

Ergotelina said...

@NoFearNoHateNoGreed


12 Aug 2006

In an international demonstration against the occupation of Palestine and the war in Lebanon, an Israeli activist has been seriously injured, apparently brain damaged, by Israeli police. He is presently undergoing emergency surgery in a Tel Aviv hospital.





Watch this Video.ISRAELI ACTIVIST HEAVILY INJURED

BadlyDrawnBoy said...

Άιντε εργατοτέτοια ο Κλίβανός σου κέρδισε σήμερα τη Γαλλία. Πως έχεις σκοπό να το γιορτάσεις?

Χεζμπολά ινσαλά (repeat)

Για την εργοτελάρα θα σχολιάσω κάποια άλλη στιγμή.

Ergotelina said...

No more French mandate


LEBANON FRANCE 74 73

Ergotelina said...

@NoFearNoHateNoGreed

i took it from FreeCyprus...

Eboo Patel says...

I am an American Muslim. I believe in pluralism. In the Holy Quran, God tells us, "I created you into diverse nations and tribes that you may come to know one another." I believe America is humanity's best opportunity to make God's wish that we come to know one another a reality.

“I realize now that to believe in pluralism means I need the courage to act on it. Action is what separates a belief from an opinion.”

Ergotelina said...

Amnesty Report on Israel/Lebanon
Deliberate destruction or "collateral damage"?

Ergotelina said...

Seized Gaza journalists in video

Margaret said...

If we all can come to the place of Beer-sheba; we can all learn lessons in unconditional peace.

ioannisk said...

ergo θα ήθελα να διαβάσω την ομιλία αλλά είμαι σε διακοπές :(

Ergotelina said...

@ioannisk
swim n' see you later...

:)

@Margaret

Wellcome my friend...

Do you mean the place
where an oath of non-aggression was made between the Philistines(Palestinians), represented by a king named Abimelech, and the Israelites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Sheva



where Hagar(Αγαρ) went after she was sent away from Abraham because of family conflicts with Abraham's wife Sarah. Hagar was Abraham's Egyptian-born concubine who had a son (see Ishmael) by Abraham when Sarah thought that she herself was unable to have children - a commonly accepted practice of the time. Then, when Sarah did have a son herself (see Isaac), she could no longer tolerate Hagar's presence, so she forced Hagar to leave. Abraham reluctantly agreed to Sarah's demand.

Hagar was not abandoned by God however. He spoke to her directly and helped her. Ishmael went on to become very successful, becoming a great nation from his descendants - the Arab peoples of today. He returned for his father Abraham's funeral at Hebron where he and Isaac placed his body in what has become known today as the "Tomb of The Patriarchs.".....

Beersheba(Βηρσαβεέ)

Margaret said...

Yes, the oath of non-aggression. Unconditional, accept our differences and embrace our blessings, moving forward instead of backwards. Saving the spilled blood of every gender, race or culture.

I sometimes ask, at which time did forgiveness become so unreachable? Have we reached it yet?

It may be the optimist in me but I do have faith in our children.

Ergotelina said...

The "Well of Oath" between Abraham and Abimelech shows that
the ancient Jews
and Palestinians
had a way for reconciliation........

but today speaks the arrogance
of both sides....
Army-Technology
Mass-Hate and Fanatism...

:(

I do have faith in our children,too..
:)

Thank you Margy for your nice comment....


Beer (well) sheva (oath)

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

@ergo te lina,

From the Eboo Patel article:

"I believe America is humanity's [current] best opportunity to make God's wish that we come to know one another a reality."

I wish to point out that I totally agree with what he said. totaly, except that America is humanity's current best chance for us to come to know one another.

yet, I wish to strongly point out, that the lost Muslim civilization did actually play that role and did actually encourage such activities. I hope you agree on this.

As for the verse he was referring to, I wish that you read all of it:
49:13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

No hate, no fear, no greed,

Basem

Ergotelina said...

...the lost Muslim civilization had ecumenical visions
and tolerance,in general standards, towards Christian and Jews....


Now America and other Western Countries give chances and freedom for the immigrants to believe in whatever religion they want...

Many muslims enjoy religious
and other rights
in the West,in a more free
way than in their birth-countries...


Being in California
you know that....

scalidi said...

εργοτελίνα, αν δεν σου κάνει κόπο θα ήθελα να μου στείλεις ένα μέιλ να σε ρωτήσεω κάτι ιδιωτικά

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

@ergo te lina,

My readings of very early Muslim rulers and legislations (1200 to 1400) indicates very strongly that ALL had the freedom to be whom they want to be and follow the religion of their choice regardless of the religion or believes as long as they don’t hinder the stability and harmony of the society.

Christian and Jews enjoyed special personal treatment by the Muslims. We can eat their food and our men can marry their women.

I wish to point out that none of the current Islamic countries follow the true Islam that ruled much of the known world.

I know you might be thinking how come you didn't hear and read much about it when you were young, but I can tell you this, the west and the rest of the world for that matter is playing the role that they came up with something humanity had never seen before.

Sad, how quick they neglected the role of Muslims in the early days and claim to be the pioneers.

The early Muslims gave birth to the idea of human-to-human tolerance regardless of race, ethnicity, or religion.

Ergo te lina, I know this and no one will take away this from me.

I lived in the U.S.A for 6 years. I am coming back to Damascus this Sunday August the 27th, where I'll be much happier than here. Simulation in my head of my situation back home that was running for more than 1 year now, concluded that I and my wife should be more than happy over there than over here.

The fact that the current Muslim world is lost in barbarian cultural settings is nothing more than a serious call for the Muslims to wake up.

We, God willing, will wake up and we will show the world what Muslims really are.

Islam has been under constant attack by the western media for more than you think.

I, my background check for my permanent residency application, is suck in "background clearance". Simply, I know why. I'm Muslim. Hardcore Muslim. Good old ancient styled Muslim. I love my prophet. I follow all that he did and said. I follow his example, and I just know his example rules with peace and justice.

He had no fear, no hate, and no greed. I have worked hard to achieve those three things. It is very hard. Very very hard. But thank Allah, I did it. And may Allah keep that with me and inside of me. This is one of the best gifts God has given it to me. Replaced my hate with love and Mercy. Replaced my fear with courage and confidence. Replaced my greed with humbleness and generosity.

It is God's prophet and God's words that I follow.

The Muslims gave the world the real solution and showed the world the path to global justice, peace, and righteousness.

The fact the very early Muslims were Ultra Ultra fair and implemented 100% justice towards all regardless of religion is something you and billion other people, including a large portion of Muslims, don’t really know.

It is time and the time is coming. Justice will be served. Enough oppression, evil, and darkness is enough.

You think high of the west? Do you really think that any Muslim civilization would even think about supporting a filthy, monstrous, dirty, and racist entity like the so called “Israel?!”

It is only time before you see a real holocaust against the Muslims in the west. Just live long enough and see.

Can’t wait to set foot on homeland.

No Fear, No Hate, No Greed,

Basem

Ergotelina said...

I wish you
Happy return to your birthland
..but
even in Israel the Arab citizens enjoy
more rights than in some muslim states
of the Middle East

PeaceMan said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WLoasfOLpQ


Dr Wafa Sultan speaks out about the problem with some Muslims

Ergotelina said...

To Dr Wafa Sultan..................

AN OPPOSITE VIEW BY A SYRIAN MUSLIM BLOGGER

NoFearNoHateNoGreed said...

Dear Ergo te Lina,

God bless you for wishing me happy time returning to my birthland. God bless you for defending me and Islam and posting my reply to the insane Dr. Wafa Sultan that have obviously suffered greatly from the barbarian, racist, and discriminatory culture and practice of some certain states of the Arabian Gulf.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for three years and I know first hand what I am talking about. Sad how they implement and force religion upon people in their lives. Sad how they think that because they have the Muslim holy sites they think they are always correct. I pray they wake up and see the light.

They are racist barbarians in many ways.

I have met one Arab-Israeli in Ames, Iowa. He is from Jerusalem. He told me he almost got killed back there and that is why he came to the U.S. I have also met another Arab-Israeli here in Pasadena, CA from Nazreth. He bluntly told me he never wish to go back. He told me that the Arabs are second class (or third, can't remember) citizens in Israel and that he felt more home in Los Angeles than in Nazreth.

Last, I don’t expect everyone to have good time in Damascus, Syria like it is the case here in most of the U.S.A.

But I live in a world that is much larger than the U.S.A. I am citizen of this earth and I belong to every land. But, giving the fact that Islam is under attack by Zionist Media such as CNN and NewYork Times, and since the U.S.A. is the only backer of the oppression taking place in the Middle East I decided to leave and leave for good.

I have no idea what your original post was about, but God bless you for letting me put my comments on your blog :-)

No Fear, No Hate, No Greed,

Basem

Al-Hajeji said...

hi ergo, are you greek or russian? I cannot make out the language. just interested

Ανδρομεδα said...

μπα! εγώ κάτι τέτοιους ανθρώπους σαν το παιδί αυτό δεν τους θεωρώ νεκρούς! Είναι απώλεια πάντως, ξέρω...
:)

Να ήταν η τελευταία! κι εσύ να είσαι καλά!

Ergotelina said...

@Andromeda
His death and his father's
funeral speech
may be a peace-message.........

:)

@Al-Hajeji
Greek..........
..greek and russian
share common letters
like Φ,Χ,Ρ.Π,Δ
:)


@NoFearNoHateNoGreed

Thank you for
your comments
and God save you...
(returning home)
from Airports-Arabophobia...
:-)


...every minority usually
is being treated
as second class citizens
by the majority

Do the minorities in Syria
have more rights
than Arabs in Israel?...

FreeCyprus said...

I replied to you...

http://hellenic-reporter.blogspot.com/2006/08/this-i-believe.html

:-)

FreeCyprus said...

.
Ergo te lina...the education topic on my blog is interesting but there must be something wrong with the way the Chinese compiled that list.

The following universities are missing from the list:

Sorbonne (Paris)
Yale (USA)
Harvard (USA)
Oxford (UK)
University of Toronto (Canada)
McGill University (Canada)
Princeton (USA)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (USA)
Peking University (China)
Cambridge (UK)

See this list

I just googled it...any other lists out there?

Also...Carlton is an ok Cdn University, but certainly not in the top 500 of the world (maybe not even top 25 in Canada)


Macleans.ca Canadian University Rankings Chart

.

Ergotelina said...

@FreeCyprus

there is no something wrong ....
Harvard etc are at the top

i gave you of 500
the list between (302-403)
that shows the rank
of Greek universities

if you want to see all 500

Academic Ranking of World Universities - 2006-Updated

FreeCyprus said...

ahh...my apologies

So this Chinese list has
the two Greek universities in the "301-400 section"...does this damn the Greek education system or does it just mean there are 300 greater universities than the great universities in Athens and Thessaloniki?
:-)

Any other lists out there?

belinha said...

Hello Ergotelina!
Came to check if a new debate was on...and to tell you that I have more silly stuff on my blog as one of my visitors put it!

Deepak Gopi said...

Alfarishto
Who are they ?

kkai-Lee said...

Για τον Ούρι, τον Χάντι, τον Πέτρο, τον Γιόχαν, τον Φρανζ
και την ΕΙΡΗΝΗ

Εμείς τον πόλεμο τον έχουμε ήδη χάσει

Κάθε μας σκέψη αρχίζει με ένα δεν

Δεν θα έρθει
δεν θα μιλήσουμε
δεν θα γελάσουμε

Ω… Ούρι
σου πήραν το φως

Σου πήραν το φως
μα με ποιο δικαίωμα

Η τόλμη σου είναι μεγάλη
έγινες ήρωας

Γράφονται για σένα
μα δεν θα τα διαβάσεις

Λέγονται για σένα
μα δεν θα τα ακούσεις

( Χωρίς τον πόλεμο
τι θα σήμαινε ήρωας

Χωρίς τον Ούρι
πόσο μετρά για μας η ειρήνη )

Εμείς τον πόλεμο τον έχουμε ήδη χάσει

Κάθε μας λέξη κτυπά στους άσπρους τοίχους
του άδειου δωματίου του

Μάταια χωρίς απόκριση

Τι αξία έχουν οι δικές μας αναμνήσεις

Αφού δεν θα γελάσει, δεν θα αγαπήσει
δεν θα ταξιδέψει με τα παιδιά του στο διάστημα
ο Ούρι


Σάββατο προς Κυριακή 2.40

Η ζωή τελείωσε

Δεν φτάνει που η ζωή σου τέλειωσε
και με το θάνατο σου έκανες περήφανους
εμάς και την πατρίδα σου

Τώρα πρέπει να μας δώσεις δύναμη
να αντέξουμε την απουσία σου

Να βρίσκουμε τα σωστά λόγια να
εξηγούμε γιατί ένα αστέρι που έσβησε
φωτίζει ακόμα.

Στους περίεργους
που λίγο αργότερα
θα ξεχαστούν ασκώντας το αυτονόητο δικαίωμα
να ζουν την κάθε τους στιγμή

Μέσα στο φως
του ήλιου που δεν έσβησε γι’ αυτούς

Του ήλιου που χρωστά σε σένα
μύριες ακτίνες

και σε μας μια εξήγηση
γιατί έπρεπε να φύγεις

Γιατί τη θέση σου την πήρε το κενό
το απύθμενο κενό
Γιατί τη θέση σου την πήρε η σιωπή σου
η απόλυτη σιωπή σου
Γιατί τη θέση σου την πήρε μια φωτογραφία σου
μια μονοδιάστατη άψυχη φωτογραφία σου

Γιατί τη θέση σου την πήρε o πόνος
ο ατέλειωτος πόνος

Γιατί την θέση σου την πήρε
πανηγυρικά άδικα

Το Δεν





Υ.Γ.

Ο Ούρι, ο Χάντι, ο Πέτρος, ο Γιόχαν, και ο Φρανζ
ήταν παιδιά της γης

Ο Ούρι, ο Χάντι, ο Πέτρος, ο Γιόχαν, και ο Φρανζ
ήταν παιδιά μας

Με πολλή σεβασμό για τον καθένα που χάνει αυτούς που αγαπά
σε ένα φιάσκο
που συνεχίζεται για αιώνες

στον πόλεμο

Μ. Κκαϊλής
25-26 Αυγούστου 2006

Για να καθαρίσουμε την Ελλάδα / To clean-up Greece Site Meter